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Offline Bart

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2017, 08:04:12 PM »
Update on the fork revalve.

I've done a few hundred miles on the second iteration now and have seen a definite improvement, the compression valve shim stack setup was a two stage tapered arrangement with the compression ports enlarged again slightly and with more radiusing on the entry and exit corners. The airgap was also increases to 124/125 (L/R)

 new shim stack        stock shim stack
16mm                            16mm               
11mm                            16mm
16mm                            16mm
14mm                            16mm
12mm                            16mm
10mm                            16mm
 8mm                             16mm
 8mm                             16mm
 8mm                             16mm
12mm backing shim        14mm
                                     12mm
                                     10mm
                                      8mm
                                      8mm
                                      8mm
                                    16mm backing shim

The front wheel feels more planted on the road and tracks slow and medium speed bumps very well.....but....it still feels a bit harsh on a high speed bump (I'm talking about how fast the fork has to compress, not road speed) for my weight of around 85kg kitted.
There may be a bit more that could be done to improve things but it seems to me that the limiting factor is the small size of the hole in the compression valve which I cannot enlarge any more, so a new valve would be needed.
I could live with it and the ride is not bad but I know things could be better, a heavier rider than I could well be happy with something like the above.
Also, I am finding the rear shock not that great and could not really face many more fork strip downs so decided to go down the Maxton Suspension route for both front and rear. In recent years virtually all my bikes have had the suspension modded/upgraded but I've never had one custom built for me so hopefully Maxton will be as wonderful as many have said. A box of lovely shiny bits arrived yesterday and the shock is already on, I'm going to just ride with the new shock first before the new cartridges go in.   :biker1: :biker1: :biker1: :biker1:

Offline 100milesaway

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #91 on: December 08, 2017, 08:16:11 AM »
I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the new kit Bart.   :152:
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Offline Bart

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #92 on: January 07, 2018, 09:44:48 PM »
*Originally Posted by Bart [+]

There may be a bit more that could be done to improve things but it seems to me that the limiting factor is the small size of the hole in the compression valve which I cannot enlarge any more, so a new valve would be needed.


Before the new Maxton cartridges went in I could not resist another revalve on the above shim stack, so I took out three more shims for a single stage stack, keeping the same oil and air gap.
The result was very good and I would like to retract the above statement about the compression valve limitations. The front felt less harsh and more planted than before and for a "cheap fix" would be extremely good value.

The Maxton cartridges are now in and today, in freezing temps, was the first run out. They are another step in the right direction.
Maxton have got the sag spot on straight out of the box and the front now feels glued to the road although ever so slightly on the firm side but this should improve with warmer weather and a few miles.

So overall, the stock front suspension can be greatly improved especially for the lighter rider for little cost aside from workshop time and is at least half way there compared to full replacement cartridges, but how much this is "worth" to the rider is different for each individual. It would be great if another did a shim stack mod for a second opinion......

Offline Paul_Smith

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2018, 12:22:56 PM »
*Originally Posted by Bart [+]
Before the new Maxton cartridges went in I could not resist another revalve on the above shim stack, so I took out three more shims for a single stage stack, keeping the same oil and air gap.
The result was very good and I would like to retract the above statement about the compression valve limitations. The front felt less harsh and more planted than before and for a "cheap fix" would be extremely good value.
...
So overall, the stock front suspension can be greatly improved especially for the lighter rider for little cost aside from workshop time and is at least half way there compared to full replacement cartridges, but how much this is "worth" to the rider is different for each individual. It would be great if another did a shim stack mod for a second opinion......
I haven't done a fork job before but I have half fancied doing one for a while now. If you were willing to do a beginners level write up on what's involved, I could be willing to give it a try.

Offline Bart

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2018, 09:42:18 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paul_Smith [+]
I haven't done a fork job before but I have half fancied doing one for a while now. If you were willing to do a beginners level write up on what's involved, I could be willing to give it a try.

Let me have a ponder on this. I'm hoping I will not have to go back into the forks for a while but we would need some more photo's to do a guide.
However, I've just started a strip down on some Fireblade forks tonight to replace the bushes and being USD forks like the V1k the same principles apply.

Have you looked at the workshop manual?
The only really two tricky bits are having to compress the spring with some sort of tool/jig and breaking the compression valve thread which is Loctited on, so a clamp is needed and a blow torch  :5:

I'll have a think and get back to you.

Offline Paul_Smith

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2018, 01:36:12 AM »
*Originally Posted by Bart [+]
Let me have a ponder on this. I'm hoping I will not have to go back into the forks for a while but we would need some more photo's to do a guide.
However, I've just started a strip down on some Fireblade forks tonight to replace the bushes and being USD forks like the V1k the same principles apply.

Have you looked at the workshop manual?
The only really two tricky bits are having to compress the spring with some sort of tool/jig and breaking the compression valve thread which is Loctited on, so a clamp is needed and a blow torch  :5:

I'll have a think and get back to you.
I have been through the service manual and the Haynes guide, and I am comfortable I could do a fork oil change, though of course I would make sure I had a backup plan just in case of  :5:.  I also watched a couple of utubers including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm2F08Ys_zU which covered everything up to and including a seal replacement on USD forks in a very straight forward and undramatic way with no special tools involved, which gives me a lot more confidence.

If you were going to do a tutorial (and I hope you will), you could focus on the specifics of extracting the damper unit and what is involved in altering it, rather then having to start with "this is a spanner, this is the end you hold..." if you know what I mean.

Offline Bart

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2018, 12:31:16 PM »
Hi Paul,
Yes, Delboys vids are very useful, they have helped me a lot in the past. I too was thinking along the same lines of just focusing on the damper rod etc.....leave it with me.

Offline Topbox

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2018, 04:03:04 PM »
*Originally Posted by Bart [+]
Update on the fork revalve.

 new shim stack        stock shim stack
16mm                            16mm               
11mm                            16mm
16mm                            16mm
14mm                            16mm
12mm                            16mm
10mm                            16mm
 8mm                             16mm
 8mm                             16mm
 8mm                             16mm
12mm backing shim        14mm
                                     12mm
                                     10mm
                                      8mm
                                      8mm
                                      8mm
                                    16mm backing shim

n.   :biker1: :biker1: :biker1: :biker1:

Do you have details of the thickness of the shims.

Cheers
TB
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Offline Bart

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2018, 05:54:49 PM »
Hi Topbox,
Apologies for the delay in my reply but I've been preoccupied with some new fork bushes on another bike which did not go to plan as the parts are faulty   GGrrrrrr.

The shim thickness on the V1k is 0.15mm.

Offline Bart

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Re: Fork Revalve ?
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2018, 06:51:35 PM »
As requested, here are a few words and photo's about the revalve I recently did. There will be several ways to go about this and I'm not saying this is the best or only way, just what I did that worked for me.

Please be advised that any work carried out is done at the owners risk.

The V1k is slightly annoying in that in order to remove the forks I found that access to the top triple clamp bolt was only possible by first removing the fairings. It was possible to get limited purchase on it but the last thing you want is to round off the bolt head.

Once the fairings are off, release the top triple clamp first and then release the fork cap nut a couple of turns only while the lower triple clamp holds the fork. It is easier using the lower clamp the hold the fork.

With the fork on the bench, next release the damper rod bolt at the bottom of the fork and then very gently nip it up again. Doing this now is again easier when the fork spring preload is still acting on the fork as it reduces the chance of the cartridge rotating inside the fork later.


Unscrew the fork cap and drain the oil.

Next is to remove the fork cap from the top of the cartridge, there are many solutions (YouTube is your friend) and this  is mine...a couple of sash clamps. This is a Fireblade fork but is simislar to the V




Compressing the spring reveals a lock nut...


The V one is further down than on the Blade.. both cartridges out


The compression valve is ONLY in the right cartridge and is loctited in at the bottom. I made a tube clamp from a piece of 2x3 and a 22mm flat blade bit, cut in half along the hole to hold the tube. The loctite needs heating up a lot with a blow torch (again see Youtube if it is your first time)


This is the reward for your efforts


And the compression valve laid out...the shims at the top are all the ones I removed on my final version


The valve is the black thing centre, on the left is the rebound non return valve, it only flows oil one way. On the right is the compression stack......which is an endless discussion topic.

 



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