Author [ES] [CA] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [NO] [GR] [TR] Topic: Disc Brake Quiet  (Read 6853 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TowerMan

  • Versys Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Bike: Mk1 V650 & Mk2 V1k
  • City / Town: Biggar.
  • Country: scotland
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #100 on: January 21, 2018, 05:18:37 PM »
I didn't write this but here is some background info that I found a few years ago and bookmarked  :028:


Rotor Attachment Methods - Why float?
The purpose for not using fixed or one-piece rotors is pretty simple and understood.

First, the floating rotor allows for better pad knockback (where the rotor “knocks back” the pad such that there is no contact and reducing rolling drag).

Second, it will accommodate for a small misalignment of rotor to caliper / pad. This will allow for full pad contact even when parts are not perfectly aligned. Imagine a fixed rotor with a misaligned caliper – the actual contact (and pad/rotor wear) would only be a portion of what is available. As you might think, the full-floating allows for more of the above benefits over the semi-floating design.

Semi-floating Rotors:
Most OE rotors are a semi-float design. That is, there is no direct attachment between the disc and the carrier, but they do not move freely of each other without moderate force. If you have semi-float rotors, you can move the disc independently of the carrier by pushing and pulling the disc perpendicular to the carrier. The actual attachment is a rivet-style with a spring sandwiched between the rivet surface and the rotor components on each side. The springs are always in contact with the rotor components creating the ‘semi-float’ effect.

Full-floating Rotors:
Most aftermarket rotors, are full-floating. Like the semi-floating rotors, the carrier and disc are separate parts, but that attachment mechanism between the two are different. Where the semi-float uses a rivet design, the fill floating design uses a “button” without any spring force applied to the rotor components. While the button is a mechanical attachment, the back side is secured by a snap ring, e-clip, or stacked spring that can be removed. The degree of free float is in the range of 0.5-1.0mm. These are completely free float and you can move them with no effort with your fingers.

Comparisons:
So why not just use full-floating rotors on everything if they are better?
They are better for pure performance, but there is a trade-off for the benefits. The main disadvantage to the full-floating design is the noise factor.
First, they rattle…all the time…high speed, low speed, they always rattle.
Second, they are much more likely to make noise (probably low speed, low frequency howl or groan noise) because the mechanical attachment has been ‘loosened’. I guarantee that while you and I may be willing to live with the noise given a performance benefit, the OE will not. They do not want the complaints and warranty costs associated with noisy pads.

I think a discussion regarding rotor disc metallurgy would be helpful at this point. Two basic metals are offered for the rotor discs – cast iron and steel. Now there are many versions of each with respect to processing, but let's stick to the basics for this discussion. It's also worth noting that almost 100% of automotive rotors brake surface are cast iron. First and foremost, it's cheap. Second, it can be poured very easily. I think the main reason for stainless steel being used for motorcycle rotors is corrosion. Most motorcycles are seasonal and get stored for a good part of the year where they would rust. Not good. Cars that are driven every day may get surface rust, but no accumulation.

Steel is available in both the OE & aftermarket sectors. It is the most popular material and usually priced cheaper than the cast iron versions. The main advantage is that they will not corrode as easy as well as the selection for brake pads is much greater. Cast iron also has its advantages, with the main being a higher friction level. There are also claims as to a better feel or modulation capability, but I have not experienced that. Given the choice where corrosion from high humidity is not a concern, the general consensus is to go with cast iron.


Rotor Maintenance: - What? Its true.
Some rotors require routine maintenance. Stock Brembo’s that are on Aprilia and Ducati sport bikes are semi-float. They are a common rotor (interchangeable) and have a common problem without maintenance – brake vibration. Almost everyone who owns an Aprilia or Ducati recognizes the bulletin board topic “Brake Vibration”. They take it to the dealership under warranty and get the rotors replaced. Unfortunately, the problem is in the rivets and it could return.

They collect brake dust and other crap that binds up the movement of the disc. If the rotor cannot move freely (as much as semi-floaters can), you will get brake vibration. Bottom line is that you have to clean the rivets with brake cleaner periodically to keep them clean and functional. Be sure to clean any braking surface you touch with your fingers with brake cleaner.

Brake Pad / Rotor Interface :
Just be aware that specific pads are for specific rotor materials. If you purchase aftermarket rotors, ask the manufacturer (not the zit-faced kid at the dealer or on the phone that is selling you the product) which pads work well with there rotors.

If the rotor manufacturer makes a specific pad for their rotor, consider using it. If there is a problem down the road, you will have a reasonable argument in hand that the system is completely ‘theirs’. If you get a BrakeTech kit, use the BrakeTech recommended Ferodo pads. It is that simple.


Richard  :001:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 05:30:40 PM by TowerMan »
                  Details HERE  :123A:
And the on the V650 forum - www.versys.co.uk

Offline TYKE

  • Versys Mega God
  • ******
  • Posts: 7279
  • Bike: GREEN, 2017 GT
  • City / Town: Northern Ireland .
  • Country: gb
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #101 on: January 21, 2018, 06:24:50 PM »
Great explanation which, for my money, clarifies the situation. ....Thanks TM  :028:   
Be wary of an old man in a world where men die young

Roger (Rog)

Offline TowerMan

  • Versys Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Bike: Mk1 V650 & Mk2 V1k
  • City / Town: Biggar.
  • Country: scotland
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #102 on: January 21, 2018, 07:25:43 PM »
*Originally Posted by TYKE [+]
Great explanation which, for my money, clarifies the situation. ....Thanks TM  :028:   
And this is a noise / friction comparison Video between the two types :7:

                  Details HERE  :123A:
And the on the V650 forum - www.versys.co.uk

Offline Crosshairs

  • Versys Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 961
  • Country: us
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #103 on: January 21, 2018, 09:46:38 PM »
My Galfers are full floating and they are not anywhere near  that loose and do not make any noticeable noise ....that video is  insane and I have never once seen a bike with buttons that loose

Offline Keener

  • Versys Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Bike: 2015 Versys 1000
  • Country: ca
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #104 on: January 22, 2018, 02:58:24 AM »
*Originally Posted by TYKE [+]
Great explanation which, for my money, clarifies the situation. ....Thanks TM  :028:   


DITTO   :028:

Offline Keener

  • Versys Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Bike: 2015 Versys 1000
  • Country: ca
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2018, 03:09:21 AM »
*Originally Posted by Crosshairs [+]
My Galfers are full floating and they are not anywhere near  that loose and do not make any noticeable noise ....that video is  insane and I have never once seen a bike with buttons that loose

YEP my Brembo full floaters were never that loose either and were only a bit  noisy at walking speed  (coasting ) and that was after aprox 10,000km.
 

Offline peter73

  • Ex Member
  • Versys Master
  • *
  • Posts: 677
  • Account Terminated
  • Bike: Versys 1000 Mk2
  • City / Town: Sofia
  • Country: bg
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #106 on: January 22, 2018, 07:53:00 AM »
Very good post TowerMan - makes perfect sense and is fully in line with my personal experience.

Offline TYKE

  • Versys Mega God
  • ******
  • Posts: 7279
  • Bike: GREEN, 2017 GT
  • City / Town: Northern Ireland .
  • Country: gb
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2018, 08:49:03 AM »
*Originally Posted by TowerMan [+]
And this is a noise / friction comparison Video between the two types :7:


 :5:   
Be wary of an old man in a world where men die young

Roger (Rog)

Offline Paul_Smith

  • Ex Member
  • Versys God
  • *
  • Posts: 1046
  • Account Terminated
  • Bike: V1K 2016 Black
  • Country: ie
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2018, 10:46:51 AM »
*Originally Posted by kris [+]
What kind of rotor we have on V1, full floating or semi-floating?  ... I heard some bikes have those buttons seized.

*Originally Posted by kris [+]
...I think that all that thing about cleaning bobbins and moving them around is just bs... 

Sorry Kris, but you have demonstrated that you don't know enough about brakes to have a valid opinion. If you want to learn, I am sure plenty here will still be happy to help you, but the more unsupported assertions that you come out with, and the more you argue with people who clearly do know more then you, the less effort people will invest in trying to teach you.

Offline kris

  • Versys Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
  • Bike: Versys 1000
  • Country: th
Re: Disc Brake Quiet
« Reply #109 on: January 22, 2018, 11:47:27 AM »
*Originally Posted by TYKE [+]
Well you are of course entitled to your opinion Kris   :028:   ...I will still clean mine (occasionally)   :002:   

 :002:

 



Recent Topics


waggish