Author Topic: MISCONCEPTION  (Read 578 times)

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Offline Steve in sunny Fla

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MISCONCEPTION
on: August 23, 2021, 02:08:01 PM
    Lately I've been contacted by folks who think they need to get a header in order for the flash (tune) to work. This is a wholly incorrect misconception. This indicates a lack of understanding regarding tuning. Let me try to clear this up.

    Tuning is done AFTER the hard parts are selected for a given combination. Tuning does not make power, it only exposes the power available from the collection of hard parts assembled. In other words, an increase in compression would generally require pistons, more rpm requires larger cams, more peak power requires a more free flowing exhaust, etc. This is what I mean by "hard parts combination".

     Think of tuning like seasoning in a soup... all the ingredients are there, but without the seasoning it will be bland, not it's best. Tuning is the same thing, it pulls all the ingredients together and gets the best performance from them.

     As such, you don't change the hard parts to fit the tune... you tune to fit the hard parts. In other words, you don't need a header to make the tune work it's best... if you don't want a header, then you get a tune that's designed using the stock header. If you want more peak power, you may want a header... then you'll need a different tune for that header. Simple. You don't need a header to make the tune work... it's the other way around.

     Someone suggested to me " what came first, the chicken or the egg" argument. It's not.  It's impossible to tune for a combination that doesn't exist. in other words, I had to put a header on my bike before I could find out what was needed tuning - wise. Keep that in mind when dealing with other tuners... have they actually worked with that combination, or is it a guess? I personally know of a US based tuner who offers fuel tunes on another model for 20 different exhausts... and they don't exist for that model. HMMM.

    Just like you can't  make a great soup by dumping in the seasoning first and then adding the ingredients, so to with tuning. Ingredients (hard parts) first... then the tune.

    Now IF you have decided you want more power, and can see the results I've achieved with, let's say the black widow header and tall velocity stacks, then you can select the tune concurrently as you collect the hard parts, because it's the same as working from a written recipe. Just remember that like the soup, if you get a tune designed for an aftermarket header and you still have the stock header, you won't achieve your goals until all the parts of the recipe are installed on your bike.

    I hope that clears this up.

    Steve

Offline Kaw

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 03:51:21 PM
Im just waiting for a 2020 tune now all others bits are on ,must say the bike runs very well with a nice throttle pick up no jerking so would be nice to see if a tune makes it better

Offline kirmaniac

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #2 on: October 09, 2021, 06:46:43 PM
When will there be a flash for the 2019 and newer Versys 1000 ???
Kirmaniac

Offline Steve in sunny Fla

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #3 on: October 09, 2021, 08:03:29 PM
*Originally Posted by kirmaniac [+]
When will there be a flash for the 2019 and newer Versys 1000 ???

   When there is more interest in the versys 1000. Sales for the earlier models is very slow, and the amount of work to crack the ecu's and apply tuning is considerable. Remember, with fly by wire I can't just apply the work I've done, the throttle control is completely different.
  Steve

Offline kirmaniac

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #4 on: October 09, 2021, 09:13:32 PM
Understand the need for interested 2019-21 owners to make the R&D viable. How to gauge interest is key to make a flash happen.
I recently did some rollons against a 2018 Versys 1000 with 2 less teeth on the rear sprocket and lost every rollon we did, and the guy on the 2018 was 90 lbs heavier. I either have a weak motor or they took some power away to meet the EURO4 emissions.

Maybe between the Facebook group and this forum group enough people would respond if some sort of survey was taken?
Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 09:37:01 PM by kirmaniac
Kirmaniac

Offline Steve in sunny Fla

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #5 on: October 11, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
*Originally Posted by kirmaniac [+]

I recently did some rollons against a 2018 Versys 1000 with 2 less teeth on the rear sprocket and lost every rollon we did, and the guy on the 2018 was 90 lbs heavier. I either have a weak motor or they took some power away to meet the EURO4 emissions.


   Interesting, first I've heard of a V on V roll on. 2 teeth less is a disadvantage, as is the weight. Still won. Are you sure he didn't snooker you and run 1 gear lower?  Had I already flashed the 2018?


Offline spirit750

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #6 on: October 11, 2021, 02:23:31 PM
Steve, really torn on this lately.  Performance wise I'm pretty happy with my stock 2017.  The inconsistencies in the fueling are killing me though.  If I leave everything stock, but get your flash, am I still going to see some great changes?  I know flashing the ECU on my GSX-S with mostly stock everything was a big change and took care of all the fueling problems that caused the GSX-S to never be as popular as it should have been.

My main issues are the on/off throttle abruptness.  I think that also leads to the rough shifts which I noticed one of your reviewers said disappeared after the flash.

Basically, if I'm fine with performance (for now) and not really interested in changing the exhaust (for now), will your flash give me a little bump and SMOOTH everything out?

Offline Steve in sunny Fla

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #7 on: October 11, 2021, 02:45:50 PM
*Originally Posted by spirit750 [+]
Steve, really torn on this lately.  Performance wise I'm pretty happy with my stock 2017.  The inconsistencies in the fueling are killing me though.  If I leave everything stock, but get your flash, am I still going to see some great changes?  I know flashing the ECU on my GSX-S with mostly stock everything was a big change and took care of all the fueling problems that caused the GSX-S to never be as popular as it should have been.

My main issues are the on/off throttle abruptness.  I think that also leads to the rough shifts which I noticed one of your reviewers said disappeared after the flash.

Basically, if I'm fine with performance (for now) and not really interested in changing the exhaust (for now), will your flash give me a little bump and SMOOTH everything out?

   I actually have several different flashes for the V1000. I have flashes for the all stock bike (stock exhaust) and also different flashes for the Delkevic and Black Widow exhausts. On top of that, you can order any of my flashes with 1st gear wheelies suppressed, or not suppressed. So you order the flash for how you intend to have the bike set up, and to your liking. I think you'll find if you read what others have written that smoothness of throttle and operation is a mainstay of my tuning. No more off / on throttle jerk, no excessive engine braking, smooth gear changes. More power. No light throttle feelings of being on the edge of lean. No idle hunting. All without a fuel economy penalty (unless you start getting heavier on the loud handle). I hope this helps.
   Steve

Offline kirmaniac

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Re: MISCONCEPTION
Reply #8 on: October 11, 2021, 03:08:45 PM
Back to the rollons, I wasn't snookered, this was against a friend of mine that I ride with all the time and we did 5th and 6th gear rollons from 60 mph. One of the reasons I bought the 2019 Versys was because I knew about your flash and dyno charts so I was planning on getting the black widow header and flash but after my purchase I found neither were available for the 2019. Bummer. I came from a C14 so I'm used to having more power on tap.
Kirmaniac

 

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