Author Topic: Bloody suspension  (Read 2283 times)

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Offline RaYzerman

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #10 on: September 02, 2021, 04:01:34 AM
For two up, you'll need to increase the preload......
I experimented with mine trying to vastly reduce the front end dive, so started by dialing in the fork preload all the way, and the rebound adjuster at just two clicks out.  Improved, but compression damping still a bit soft.  Changed the fork oil to 10W to improve the compression damping, now backed off the preload to a couple of lines showing and rebound damping is about 4 clicks out.  I understand the fork springs are a good rate (1.0) for our weight but I don't know if they are progressive.  Straight rate springs are much preferred by me.  Wish we had adjustable compression.....  the ultimate fix is a set of Andreani cartridges methinks.

The rear has 24 clicks of preload available, and I can't even fathom using Kawi's 2 clicks of preload, that's a joke... I'm at 14 clicks.  Rebound adjust screw is somewhat less than 1 turn out, perhaps I even have it at 3/4 turn from hard.... now it's OK but a little firm, I may back the preload out to 12, but I'm not changing the damping.  Hard to find, but I believe the rear spring rate is 615 lbs/in.  We need more like 800-850.

I weight about the same as you, so it's OK one-up.  It handles better in the twisties and is not so wiggly if that's a good term.
Rear tire pressure at 42 psi, front at 38.

Nothing is going to be better than an aftermarket shock with remote preload for you doing two -up.  These should also come with both compression and rebound damping adjustments, and bonus if it is ride-height adjustable.

All my opinion of course.  That and a Canadian toonie will get you a coffee.
2016 V1000 LT,  '09 CBF1000 A9, '99 VFR 800 Fi

Experience is a great teacher, she gives you the tests first and the lessons later.

Online TowerMan

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #11 on: September 02, 2021, 05:13:30 AM
This is what Maxton have to say about the OEM suspension setup.

---------------------------------------------

KAWASAKI VERSYS 1000 2015 to 2018

 FRONT
The front forks on the Versys 1000 are upside down forks with preload adjustment in both legs but only rebound damping adjustment in one leg. The forks feel like ‘harsh pogosticks’. Over small bumps they can kick and make the front end a bit nervous at high speeds, but the biggest problem with these forks is the lack of rebound damping, this causes the front of the bike to spring back very quickly when you let go of the brake, making the bike difficult to get in to a corner and run wide out of corners. The springs in the forks are OK for the average rider weight.
The damping and springing have been split between the forks, the left leg has a spring inside but no damping and the right leg has a spring and damping inside. This means that the damping leg has to have twice as much rebound damping and compression damping to compensate for the other leg having no damping.
The damping leg can be revalved to try and prevent the forks springing back too quickly, but when you do this the ride becomes even harsher over small bumps. This means you can not revalve the damping successfully, so we replace the internal fork cartridges for our GP20 fork cartridges.
The Maxton GP20 fork cartridges have rebound damping and compression damping in both legs. To reduce the cost of the cartridges we use the standard fork tops, so this means even though you have rebound damping and compression damping in both legs the rebound damping is only altered from one leg. The GP20 cartridges are built to order so we valve and spring them to suit your rider weight and what you are using the bike for. The damping inside the forks is progressive, this means the first part of the travel is soft and compliant but the faster and further the forks move the more support and control the forks have. This means the forks will absorb small bumps in the road but under heavy braking they have support and also control when you let go of the brake. We fit springs to the GP20 cartridges to suit your rider weight and what you are using the bike for. The cost of the GP20 fork cartridges is £xxx.00 + V.A.T per pair, the cost of servicing the forks with new fork seals and fitting the GP20 cartridges is an extra £xxx.00 + V.A.T per pair.
If you would like adjustable rebound damping in both legs we supply our GP20 fork cartridges with new Maxton fork tops. These cartridges cost £xxxx.00 + V.A.T per pair and an extra £xxx.00 + V.A.T to fit them with new fork seals.

REAR
The rear shock linkage on the Versys 1000 is almost identical to a 2012 Z1000, the shock is lay down flat behind the engine. The standard unit on the Versys 1000 is very cheap; the unit feels like a firm ‘pogostick’ as it does not have enough rebound damping and the compression damping is too high. The spring on the unit is also a little too hard for the average rider weight. The standard unit is a sealed item so can not be revalved or rebuilt. We could respring the unit and fit a softer spring but this would only make the rear of the bike a little more compliant as the damping would still be too harsh.
We recommend replacing the unit with a Maxton NR4 NON-remote unit. This unit is basically an RT10 shock without the remote reservoir. The NR4 unit is an alloy bodied high pressure gas shock with a floating piston to separate the oil and gas. The unit is adjustable for rebound damping, compression damping, preload and ride height adjustment. The NR4 unit is built to order so we valve and spring the shock to suit your rider weight and what you are using the bike for, we also base set the adjusters at a setting that suits you. The preload adjustment is very quick and easy to get to. The NR4 Maxton unit costs £xxx.00 + V.A.T.
If you are riding the bike fast then we would recommend the RT10 unit, this unit has a remote reservoir with high and low speed compression damping adjusters. This makes it very quick and easy to change the compression damping and also gives you a much finer range and wider range on the compression damping adjustment. The remote reservoir sits underneath the rear seat. The RT10 rear shock costs £xxx.00 + V.A.T.
The preload on both shocks is our manual ‘Tommy Bar’ system which is very simple and quick to adjust from the bottom of the shock absorber, but we can also supply a Hydraulic preload adjuster that fits to either the NR4 rear shock or the RT10 rear shock. The hydraulic preload adjuster costs £xxx.00 + V.A.T.
Richard    :001:

On the www.versys.co.uk forum

Online Kawasakikid

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #12 on: September 02, 2021, 07:30:28 AM
That sounds right like the way it says makes the front end nervious at speed made me nervous also .

Offline RaYzerman

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #13 on: September 02, 2021, 01:52:09 PM
In general, I can't understand why Kawi (or any bike manufacturer) doesn't put a decent suspension on a bike of this price range.  It's a compromise situation, probably for the bean counters, and my suggestions are all you can do really, there is a point where one must go aftermarket.  I'll slightly nit pick with Maxton on the rear that the spring is too hard... there's only rebound damping and the range is very narrow where it works.

The forks do need both compression and rebound adjustments.... I'm near the tight end of rebound just to get it in control.... and you can't tweak much more.

So we have to go out and spend a hefty sum on suspension... sigh.
2016 V1000 LT,  '09 CBF1000 A9, '99 VFR 800 Fi

Experience is a great teacher, she gives you the tests first and the lessons later.

Offline Kaw

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #14 on: September 02, 2021, 02:06:02 PM
*Originally Posted by RaYzerman [+]
In general, I can't understand why Kawi (or any bike manufacturer) doesn't put a decent suspension on a bike of this price range.  It's a compromise situation, probably for the bean counters, and my suggestions are all you can do really, there is a point where one must go aftermarket.  I'll slightly nit pick with Maxton on the rear that the spring is too hard... there's only rebound damping and the range is very narrow where it works.

The forks do need both compression and rebound adjustments.... I'm near the tight end of rebound just to get it in control.... and you can't tweak much more.

So we have to go out and spend a hefty sum on suspension... sigh.
Maxton set the spring rate to your own spec ie rider weight plus a passenger if you take on ,also there is compression damping and rebound and a height adjuster built in

Offline peejay69

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #15 on: September 06, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
*Originally Posted by RaYzerman [+]
In general, I can't understand why Kawi (or any bike manufacturer) doesn't put a decent suspension on a bike of this price range.  It's a compromise situation, probably for the bean counters, and my suggestions are all you can do really, there is a point where one must go aftermarket.  I'll slightly nit pick with Maxton on the rear that the spring is too hard... there's only rebound damping and the range is very narrow where it works.

The forks do need both compression and rebound adjustments.... I'm near the tight end of rebound just to get it in control.... and you can't tweak much more.

So we have to go out and spend a hefty sum on suspension... sigh.

In a word, cost.

The best set up, is compression damping in one fork and rebound in the other, with the appropriate springs for the riders weight and riding style / preference. The oil flows far faster in that set up, and can be better tuned with a less complex set up.

I remember that being almost the default on race bikes in the ‘90s.

Offline TYKE

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #16 on: September 06, 2021, 01:57:37 PM
 :762:   
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Offline 2tallrider

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #17 on: September 24, 2021, 12:55:27 AM
"got this bike and no one said the handerling was so bad above 70mph"

.....because it isn't. I have the 2019 SE with the electronic suspension and it's great. I really can't see the standard model being that horrible as Kawi has been making street bikes for years and like their competitors they know what they are doing. Check your tire pressures are set to the spec's in the manual, etc. Maybe your suspension guy is not as experienced as he led you to believe. If everyone was having the issue you are there should be a lot more people complaining about it than I see on any Kawi forums. Good luck.

Offline Rockdoc

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #18 on: September 24, 2021, 06:26:57 PM
*Originally Posted by 2tallrider [+]

.....because it isn't. I have the 2019 SE with the electronic suspension and it's great.

I had a Mark 2 and now run a 2019 SE. I've been able to go to the edge of the tread on the OEM Bridgestones with full confidence on both, solo or with Ruth on the back and with or without luggage. The Mark 2 was extremely sensitive to rear preload but I never touched the forks. One or two clicks made a vast difference to the handling. It could go from feeling like it had very narrow tyres to wallowing like a drunken camel in short order. It took a few rides to find the sweet spot but I never felt the need to change the OEM kit.

The SE is better because it also makes changes to the forks as well as the rear shock but the same applies. It's sensitive to the settings but we find the standard settings work well enough and I've felt no urge to use Rider mode.

Am I a soft rider? Possibly but I was complimented on riding two-up on some narrow, tight and twisty Welsh lanes on the Versys Meet ride-out. I'd been worried I'd been holding people up but I was told I was quicker than a lot of the 650 solo riders.

At the finish, we're all different and a lot of things about our bikes are inevitably personal preferences. If something affects your confidence then all enjoyment disappears. Do what makes you happy. End of.

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Where do they get the names for these colours?

Offline leachy

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Re: Bloody suspension
Reply #19 on: September 27, 2021, 07:31:04 AM
Im still getting used to the suspension, here in Australia for 2021 we only get the SE version, no electronic suspension. I find it does need tweaking between 1 up and 2 up, I think this is due to the longer suspension travel and Im finding I prefer more preload and dampening than other bikes I have had. My previous road bike was a VFR 800 and I could live with that on the same settings with 1 or 2 on the bike, only time I changed it was if I was riding along way in the wet.

I thinks its generally pretty good what I have noticed is the width of the bars seem to make the front feel a little skittish and I think the smallest inputs from either direction, road  surface or rider make the front feel less planted. Maybe that's also just in my mind.

Regards
Leachy